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Patricia L. Patricia's work in these two fields led her to write Understanding Karmic Patterns Wessex Astrologer, , based on thousands of case studies of past-life regressions.

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Based in Sarasota, Florida, she maintains a busy schedule training, consulting, and lecturing around the world. In addition to her books, more information on her work is available on her website: www. My initial encounter with Patricia came at her first NORWAC lecture in ; I was impressed that her astrological insights were informed not only by her experiences in Past-Life Regression Therapy, but also by her long-term studies of esoteric and shamanic practices. I conducted a phone interview with Patricia after her return from a training workshop in Australia, with follow-up questions via e-mail between hurricanes in Florida and workshops in New York.

Whether Patricia is lecturing at a conference, fighting off the effects of jet lag, or writing on a computer, her intellectual curiosity, breadth of knowledge, and personal warmth come through vividly. In light of the work she does, I was particularly eager to discuss two current topics with her: the increasing concern over the symptoms of post- traumatic stress disorder PTSD in our returning veterans and the growing awareness and adoption of shamanic healing methods in the United States.

I began our conversation with the latter topic. Moll Frothingham: In the last ten years, I've noticed more and more books in the metaphysical section of bookstores devoted to "shamanic healing. Patricia Walsh: I think that the inter- est in going back to Earth-centered ways has a lot to do with the direction that the collective needs to take, which is paying more attention to our interconnectedness — Mother Earth, Gaia, and nature-centered consciousness.

But on the esoteric side, what I also find interesting — and have seen a lot in my work with groups — relates to what Alice Bailey said in her works: that souls reincarnate in groups.

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What that means is that certain archetypal themes get repeated through generations. I think the particular generations that we're tapping into — those herbalists killed during the Middle Ages, the witch- burnings I think a lot of those souls have reincarnated. Which brings us back to people who work in modern- day practices as alternative healers — herbalists, naturopaths, etc. Many of them are the returning herbalists, the wise women, the ancient ones.

This idea of souls reincarnating in groups is true, generationally, and when we look at that astrologically, that's Pluto by sign. There is also a resurgence of interest in understanding "shamanic" ways of healing and living. The term "shaman" is often quite misused and homogenized because of that, and it is not a term that anyone should apply to themselves.

I typically say that my healing work is based in shamanic principles, because it is MF: What was your path to astrology? Were the works of Alice Bailey instrumental in that? PW: If I were to say that I had a religion, it would be the way that the divine expresses itself through the human psyche. That is one of the most awesome things that I continue to observe and delight in. At the same time, the way that the divine expresses itself through the natural world is pretty mind-blowing also!

But how the divine expresses itself through the human psyche, from the archetypal to the individual to the egoic consciousness — it's absolutely fascinating to me! In grammar school and in high school, I was reading everything I could on psychology. I was reading Jung and Freud, and then I was into esoteric literature — Alice Bailey was a big part of that; in the Bailey material, there's a whole branch of esoteric astrology.

And then the psychological astrologers, especially Liz Greene and Howard Sasportas, really caught my attention. But in my passion for understanding the human psyche — what makes us tick, what is being expressed through us — astrology was a natural thing for me to reach out to. It's a map or a tool, another way to understand the psyche. MF: Did you ever have an "Aha! Then there were the psychological astrologers. When I came across Jeffrey's work on Pluto and the evolutionary journey of the soul, that tied together everything I was intuiting and observing regarding the human psyche; he described it in a way no one had done before.

So, when I got that, I thought: "This is the only astrology book I'll ever need! MF: Jeffrey Wolf Green for those unfamiliar with his work uses Pluto as the symbol of the soul's conditioning, then looks at the nodal axis, the rulers of Pluto and the nodal axis, and the aspects connected to them. Other astrologers have talked about the Moon or the 12th house as the karmic past.

Have you found in your work any astrological signatures that "pop out," in terms of karmic conditioning of our past lives?

PW: Rather than coming up with a theory and projecting that onto somebody's past, because I was doing and teaching regression work, I collected several thousand case studies. I was doing that for my own fascination and study. I am quite fortunate to have access to so many people's psyches, and the ability to observe them in trance-state therapy.

So, I would have somebody's chart, and regress them or hear their session, or observe them in training, and I'd write their past lives — along with the deep emotional imprints and traumas that came up — on the back of the chart. When I flipped the chart over, their experiences were described so clearly in the exact way that Jeff Green's Evolutionary Astrology describes them. The baseline archetypes that their psyche would return to over and over again, in various past lives, would ultimately relate to Pluto and the nodes, not only circumstantially but — more importantly — by emotional karmic complexes.

The other dramatic illustration that I saw involves the special rules that apply in Evolutionary Astrology, such as when there's a square to the nodes. This is one of the departures from regular karmic astrology, which has taught for years that we're always moving from our South Node to our North Node.

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Whereas in Evolutionary Astrology, when there's a square to the nodes, it's saying that the archetypes of the South Node, North Node, and squaring planet are all part of the soul's past history. And that they're being brought up again in the current life, often experienced in the form of a crisis external or internal , so that the soul can rework that t-square. But when I looked at case after case of these squares to the nodal axis, these Libra South Node types would have had past lives as loners — as pioneers and warriors — which is clearly the North Node in Aries, and this was their own psyche's memory coming up with these images through regression.

PW: I didn't realize I was collecting material for a book until I had several thousand case studies sitting in boxes! Then, after a comment from a friend, I realized that what I had was of value for both the astrology and transpersonal psychology worlds. MF: Have you run into resistance from astrologers who don't believe in past lives or from past-life regression therapists who don't believe in astrology? PW: I don't find that discussing things on a "belief-only" basis makes sense to anyone, and I don't have any inter- est in "converting" nonbelievers.

I have my experience, and others have theirs. From years of working with both astrology and regression, it is more a matter of experience for me now rather than belief. I prefer to discuss things from a point of similarity rather than differences For example, I knew a woman who was "born again" and very strong in her faith; she talked to me about a healing she had received during a group session with a minister.

She had relationship issues, basically fueled by a repressed memory of abandonment by her father. The pastor asked her to hold out her arms and say "Don't leave me"— she found herself in tears, and the repressed memory came back, opening up the door for her to heal that old wound. She was so excited when I told her that is similar to the work I do in regression and that those are also known techniques used in psychodrama and Gestalt therapy.

The difference is that I leave open the possibility that past-life memories might also come up — doesn't matter if you believe in them or not.

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If you are open to simply let the subconscious speak, I will treat it as if it is a "real" memory and go from there. She couldn't wait to get on the mat and regress! Despite her belief system, she did have "past-life" memories and was quite surprised herself. I feel that she was open to it, because I was open to her.

Roger [Woolger] used to say: "It doesn't matter if the conscious mind believes or not, the subconscious is a true believer. We started discussing "deliverance" work — basically exorcism — which is a part of my work also. We had the most fascinating conversation about the similarities of his model and the, let's say, more shamanic or psycho-spiritual ways of doing the same work.

So, if I can find that in those worlds, I'm not going to waste my energies "arguing" with supposed colleagues. Had you already been aware of Jeffrey Green's work, or was it something that came when you began to work with past-life regression? Her work integrates practical wisdom, insight, and decades of experience in consulting and instructional astrology. He began his formal study with the Shamanic Astrology Mystery School, but has since synthesized his own terrestrially-tuned celestial stew by integrating ingredients of many astro kung fus from Hellenistic to Evolutionary. Brett's principle intention is to retrieve the Star Songs we heard in times before the written word.

He transmits the mysteries he finds in sacred sites and living sky through a system of embodied exercise he calls Earthstrology and through the sacred sciences of the Quadrivium: Geometry, Musical Harmony, Astronomy, and Number in Nature. Gemini Brett is best known throughout cosmic circles as an astronomy-for-astrology expert and mystic mythologist, but the truth you'll find when you get to know this fiery Scorpio is that his techniques are designed to water the heart through re-membering Signs of the Messenger's Mind.

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